Theo Todman's Web Page - Notes Pages
Personal Identity
Thesis - Chapter 09 (Arguments against the Constitution View)
(Work In Progress: output at 12/02/2026 20:57:07)
Chapter Contents
- Abstract1
- Methodology2
- Introduction3
- Note Hierarchy4
- Main Text5
- Concluding Remarks6
- Links to Books / Papers to be Addressed7
- Works Read8
- Further Reading9
- References & Reading List
Abstract
- A discussion of the arguments against the Constitution View, focusing on those mustered by the principal animalists, with a critique.
- Additionally, I intend here to critique Olson’s “Thinking Animal” Argument10. While this is largely an argument for Animalism11, though I think it unnecessary to establish the case for Animalism, and this aspect is covered in Chapter 612, Olson uses it against the Constitution View, though it ‘works’ – if at all – against any alternative to Animalism.
Research Methodology
- Follow this Link13 for a generic statement of how I intend to pursue each Chapter.
- The method is broken down into 16, possibly iterative, stages, some of which have sub-stages.
- Follow this Link14 for my progress dashboard on these tasks.
Chapter Introduction15
- Like the previous Chapter, there is mostly a 1-1-match between this Chapter and a single Note – in this case Constitution View – Objections16. That’s because Olson’s Master Argument – which is both an argument for Animalism and an objection to the Constitution View – has its own Note but appears in Chapter 7.
- The Note on Holes & Smiles17 is relevant because it illustrates how a property – like the Cheshire Cat’s smile – cannot exist in the absence of the infrastructural body that makes it possible, nor can they be transferred from one body to another and remain the same property. So, I would argue, a First Person Perspective is the property of a particular human body, and cannot be transplanted from one body to another.
Note Hierarchy
- The Constitution View18. Excluded19
- Arguments against the Constitution View20
- Holes & Smiles21
- The Thinking Animal Argument22. Excluded23
Main Text
- Arguments against the Constitution View24
- The two obvious issues are:-
- The “too many minds” objection (otherwise known as the “thinking animal argument25”), and
- The “fetus problem26”
- Thinking Animals27
- In saying that an Individual28 is a human animal29 and that also that that Individual is a person30 that is ontologically distinct from, and merely constituted by31, the human animal, Eric Olson argues that we have too many thinkers and therefore the constitution view32 is false.
- I don’t like this argument, in that the form would prove too much. I see analogies with various mereological33 arguments:-
→ Peter Unger’s argument that “there are no ordinary things”,
→ The Sorites34 arguments against the existence of material objects with parts, and maybe with
→ Tib/Tibbles35, and
→ Dion/Theon36
- All these arguments seem to have the same form – there are alleged to be too many co-located items, leading to the denial of some seemingly obvious premise.
- Yet maybe I accept a version of this in disliking immaterial souls37 (again, too many thinkers – if the brain38 thinks, why do we need a soul that thinks as well). However, the degree of ontological39 distinctness between “the self40 and its brain41” is greater than that between the person42 and the human being43 that (maybe temporarily) constitutes44 it. I will reconsider this collection of arguments in due course.
- Fetus Problem45
- This is the question whether I46 was ever a Fetus. According to the Constitution View47, I was not, as the Fetus had no First Person Perspective48 (FPP), not even a rudimentary one, and since the FPP is constitutive / individuative of me.
- But, if I was not the Fetus, where did I49 come from?
- I’m not hugely impressed by this argument either. It’s also a problem for Animalism (it is said) – is the early fetus an animal50? Was the fetus a proper part of the mother? See "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?".
- So, should I accept the Constitution View51? I think not. I am an animal52, and objections to Animalism53 can be overcome. The whole idea of Constitution54 as conceived of by the CV is very odd, and the CV was invented to provide the hope of resurrection55. I need to justify these assertions, of course!
- Holes & Smiles56
- I was unsure whether to title this Note as “Holes” or “Smiles”, so decided on a combination. While only the former is a recognised philosophical topic, the latter is a recognised as a problem for the Constitution View57.
- The relevance to my Thesis is somewhat tangential, but the idea is that there are features58 of other things that are – most likely – not separable entities but which still have persistence conditions59. It makes sense to ask whether a particular hole is the same hole as it was a week ago, or a particular smile the same smile as a few seconds ago – smiles “wear thin” if the photographer takes too long. But neither holes nor smiles can exist separately to their host. The Cheshire Cat’s smile is not to be taken at face value.
- I see an analogy with this situation and persons60 or First Person Perspectives61. Often, when a non-philosopher doubts whether someone is the same person62 as they had been previously, they are thinking of a radical personality change. A personality63 is like a very complex and enduring smile – a property64 of something else. It cannot exist on its own, disembodied65, or pass from one body66 to another.
Concluding Remarks
- Having now discussed the arguments against both Animalism and the Constitution View, we now in our next Chapter67 turn to the question of Thought Experiments in general, and how they bear on this topic in particular.
- This is work in progress68.
Links to Books / Papers to be Addressed69
- This section attempts to derive the readings lists automatically from those of the underlying Notes, but removing duplicated references. The list is divided into:-
- I’ve not been overly careful to segregate the reading-list of this Chapter from that of Chapter 772. I will address the segregation in due course. There will, in any case, be some overlap.
- Many aspects of these papers will need to be either ignored or reserved for other chapters.
Works on this topic that I’ve actually read73, include the following:-
- Arguments against the Constitution View74
- General:
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Brief Reply to Rosenkrantz's Comments on my 'The Ontological Status of Persons'", 2002, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism", 2004, Annotations
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Reply to Zimmerman’s 'Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism'", 2004, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons", 2000, Write-Up Note75, Internal PDF Link
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. - E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View'", 2001, Book
- "Burke (Michael) - Persons and Bodies: How to Avoid the New Dualism", 1997, Internal PDF Link
- "Garrett (Brian) - The Story of I: Some Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies'", 2001, Write-Up Note76, Annotations
- "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?", 2019, Annotations, External Link
- "Noonan (Harold) - Arguments Against Animalism: Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies'", 2001, Write-Up Note77, Annotations
- "Olson (Eric) - Thinking Animals and the Constitution View", 2001, Write-Up Note78, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
- "Olson (Eric) - Thinking Animals and the Reference of 'I'", 2002, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
- "Olson (Eric) - What Are We? Constitution", 2007, Write-Up Note79, Internal PDF Link
- "Rosenkrantz (Gary) - Reflections on the Ontological Status of Persons", 2002, Internal PDF Link
- "Sider (Ted) - Review of Lynne Rudder Baker, Persons and Bodies", 2002, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- "Zimmerman (Dean) - Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism", 2004, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
- "Zimmerman (Dean) - Reply to Baker's 'Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism'", 2004, Annotations
- Holes & Smiles80
- Aeon:
- "Finn (Suki) - Is a hole a real thing, or just a place where something isn’t?", 2018, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- General:
- "Baillie (James) - What Am I?", 1993, Write-Up Note81, Footnote82
- "Casati (Roberto) & Varzi (Achille) - Holes", 1996-2014, Internal PDF Link
- "Lewis (David) & Lewis (Stephanie) - Holes", 1970
- "Olson (Eric) - What Are We?", 2007, Write-Up Note83, Annotations, Internal PDF Link, Footnote84
- "Thomas (Janice L.) - Plato's Phaedo", 2000, Footnote85
A further reading list might start with:-
- Arguments against the Constitution View86
- General:
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Replies to Zimmerman, Rea & Pereboom", 2002, External Link
- "De Waal (Frans) - The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist", 2001, Book, Read = 7%, Footnote87
- "Noller (Jorg) - Beyond Animalism and Constitutionalism: The Person as A Form of Life", Undated, Internal PDF Link, Read = 17%
- "Olson (Eric) - Review of Lynne Baker's 'Persons And Bodies'", 2001, Internal PDF Link, Read = 67%
- "Pereboom (Derek) - On Baker's Persons and Bodies", 2002
- "Rea (Michael) - Lynne Baker on Material Constitution", 2002
- "Zimmerman (Dean) - Persons and Bodies: Constitution Without Mereology?", 2002
- Holes & Smiles88
- General:
- "Bench-Capon (T.J.M.) - A Note on Mr. Karmo's Disturbances", 1977, Internal PDF Link, Read = 33%
- "Casati (Roberto) & Varzi (Achille) - Counting the Holes", 2004, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- "Casati (Roberto) & Varzi (Achille) - Immaterial Bodies", 1994, No Abstract
- "Geach (Peter) & Stoothoff (Robert) - Symposium: What Actually Exists", 1968, Internal PDF Link, Read = 5%
- "Giralt (Nuria) & Bloom (Paul) - How Special Are Objects? Children's Reasoning about Objects, Parts, and Holes", 2000, Internal PDF Link, Read = 17%
- "Karmo (Toomas) - Disturbances", 1977, Internal PDF Link, Read = 33%
- "Lewis (David) & Lewis (Stephanie) - Casati and Varzi on Holes", 1996, No Abstract
- "Meadows (Phillip John) - What Angles Can Tell Us About What Holes Are Not", 2013, Internal PDF Link, Read = 8%
- "Miller (Kristie) - Immaterial Beings", 2007, Internal PDF Link, Read = 10%
- "Sosa (Ernest) - Subjects Among Other Things", 1987, Internal PDF Link, Read = 12%, Footnote89
- "Wake (Andrew), Spencer (Joshua) & Fowler (Gregory) - Holes as Regions of Spacetime", 2007, Internal PDF Link, Read = 17%
In-Page Footnotes:
Footnote 15:
- The hyperlinks in this Introduction – as in the other Chapter Introductions – are intended to help motivate the various Notes used in the construction of the Chapter.
- So, a link appears once and once only per Note in the Note Hierarchy below and appears – as far as possible – in the order of the Hierarchy, even if this is not its first mention.
- Links to other Notes are omitted in the Chapter Introduction but appear passim in the Main Text.
Footnote 19:
- This Note will be excluded from the Reading List for this Chapter.
- It is included in the Reading List for Chapter 7.
Footnote 23:
- This Note will be excluded from the Reading List for this Chapter.
- It is included in the Reading List for Chapter 6.
Footnote 69:
- See the section on Research Methodology for what is to be done with these.
Footnote 82: Footnote 84:
- See Draft Note.
- Review Comments:–
→ First Half,
→ Second Half.
- Olson mentions dents rather than holes, but a dent is a hole philosophically-speaking, it seems.
- Topologically-speaking, a dent is a smile.
Footnote 85:
- Simmias’s “tuning of the lyre” objection to the separable existence of souls. Thomas mentions the Cheshire Cat.
Footnote 87:
- Argues against human uniqueness.
- No doubt there are a number of other books of this ilk.
Footnote 89:
- Mentions smiles and persons in Section G.
Table of the Previous 12 Versions of this Note: (of 13)
Summary of Notes Referenced by This Note
To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.
Summary of Notes Citing This Note
To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.
Authors, Books & Papers Citing this Note
| Author |
Title |
Medium |
Extra Links |
Read? |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 06 (Animalism and Arguments for It) |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 07 (The Constitution View and Arguments for It) |
Paper |
|
Yes |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 08 (Arguments against Animalism) |
Paper |
|
Yes |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Origins |
Paper |
|
Yes |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Personal Identity |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Preface |
Paper |
|
Yes |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Thinking Animal Argument |
Paper |
|
Yes |
References & Reading List
| Author |
Title |
Medium |
Source |
Read? |
| Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Brief Reply to Rosenkrantz's Comments on my 'The Ontological Status of Persons' |
Paper - Cited  |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 65, September 2002, pp. 394-395 |
Yes |
| Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism |
Paper - Cited |
Peterson (Michael) & Van Arragon (Raymond) - Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion, 2004 |
Yes |
| Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Persons and Bodies: A Constitution View |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited) |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
Yes |
| Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Replies to Zimmerman, Rea & Pereboom |
Paper - Cited |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 64.3 (May 2002), pp. 623-635 |
No |
| Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Reply to Zimmerman’s 'Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism' |
Paper - Cited |
Peterson (Michael) & Van Arragon (Raymond) - Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion, 2004 |
Yes |
| Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons |
Paper - Cited |
Baker (Lynne) - Persons and Bodies, Chapter 8, pp. 191-212 |
Yes |
| Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. |
E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View' |
Book - Cited |
Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. - E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View' |
Yes |
| Burke (Michael) |
Persons and Bodies: How to Avoid the New Dualism |
Paper - Cited |
American Philosophical Quarterly, 34 (4), 1997: 457-467 |
Yes |
| Casati (Roberto) & Varzi (Achille) |
Holes |
Paper - Cited |
Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy, 1996-2014 |
Yes |
| De Waal (Frans) |
The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist |
Book - Cited |
De Waal (Frans) - The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist |
7% |
| Finn (Suki) |
Is a hole a real thing, or just a place where something isn’t? |
Paper - Cited |
Aeon, 29 June, 2018 |
Yes |
| Garrett (Brian) |
The Story of I: Some Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies' |
Paper - Cited |
Field Guide to the Philosophy of Mind, 2001, e-Symposium on "Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View" |
Yes |
| Hains (Brigid) & Hains (Paul) |
Aeon: C-F |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited) |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
51% |
| Kingma (Elselijn) |
Were You Part of Your Mother? |
Paper - Cited |
Mind, Volume 128, Issue 511, July 2019, Pages 609–646 |
Yes |
| Lewis (David) |
Philosophical Papers Volume I |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited) |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
Yes |
| Lewis (David) & Lewis (Stephanie) |
Holes |
Paper - Cited |
Lewis - Philosophical Papers Volume I, Part 1: Ontology, Chapter 1 |
Yes |
| Noller (Jorg) |
Beyond Animalism and Constitutionalism: The Person as A Form of Life |
Paper - Cited |
Retrieved from Academia.edu |
17% |
| Noonan (Harold) |
Arguments Against Animalism: Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies' |
Paper - Cited |
Field Guide to the Philosophy of Mind, 2001, e-Symposium on "Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View" |
Yes |
| Olson (Eric) |
Papers on Identity Boxes: Vol 13 (Olson) |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited) |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
16% |
| Olson (Eric) |
Review of Lynne Baker's 'Persons And Bodies' |
Paper - Cited |
Mind, 110, Number 438, April 2001, pp. 427-430(4) |
No |
| Olson (Eric) |
Thinking Animals and the Constitution View |
Paper - Cited |
Field Guide to the Philosophy of Mind, 2001, e-Symposium on "Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View" |
Yes |
| Olson (Eric) |
Thinking Animals and the Reference of 'I' |
Paper - Cited |
Philosophical Topics 30: 189-208. 2002 |
Yes |
| Olson (Eric) |
What are We? A Study of Personal Ontology |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited) |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
Yes |
| Olson (Eric) |
What Are We? Constitution |
Paper - Cited |
What Are We? A Study in Personal Ontology, Chapter 3 (November 2007: Oxford University Press.) |
Yes |
| Pereboom (Derek) |
On Baker's Persons and Bodies |
Paper - Cited |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 64.3 (May 2002), pp. 615-622 |
No |
| Peterson (Michael) & VanArragon (Raymond) |
Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited) |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
13% |
| Rea (Michael) |
Lynne Baker on Material Constitution |
Paper - Cited |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 64.3 (May 2002), pp. 607-614 |
No |
| Rosenkrantz (Gary) |
Reflections on the Ontological Status of Persons |
Paper - Cited |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 65, September 2002, pp. 389-393 |
Yes |
| Sider (Ted) |
Review of Lynne Rudder Baker, Persons and Bodies |
Paper - Cited |
Journal of Philosophy 99 (2002): 45-48 |
Yes |
| Thomas (Janice L.) |
Mind and Person in the Philosophy of Religion |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited) |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
Yes |
| Thomas (Janice L.) |
Plato's Phaedo |
Paper - Cited |
Thomas (Janice L.) - Mind and Person in the Philosophy of Religion |
Yes |
| Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 06 (Animalism and Arguments for It) |
Paper - Referencing |
|
Yes |
| Zimmerman (Dean) |
Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism |
Paper - Cited |
Peterson (Michael) & Van Arragon (Raymond) - Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion, 2004 |
Yes |
| Zimmerman (Dean) |
Persons and Bodies: Constitution Without Mereology? |
Paper - Cited |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 64.3 (May 2002), pp. 599-606 |
No |
| Zimmerman (Dean) |
Reply to Baker's 'Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism' |
Paper - Cited |
Peterson (Michael) & Van Arragon (Raymond) - Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion, 2004 |
Yes |
Text Colour Conventions
- Blue: Text by me; © Theo Todman, 2026